Mantalk Book

A book about the Men's Movement. It had some ideas I strongly agreed with such as the need to be among nature, and the notion that there is a difference between men dominating society and successfully leading society.

-"The idea of liberating women from men assumes that men were somehow the winners in a power struggle and that power was what life was all about. Feminism assumed that men were having a good time. The men were on top, but were not winners. Its much more realistic to say that both men and women were trapped in a system which damaged them both. The way forward lies not in women fighting men but in women and men together fighting the ancient stupidities that have been bequeathed to them." p23-24
-"many married men seem to become progressively more child-like, dependent and helpless in their interactions with their wives...the wife has been given the role of permission-giver or mother-figure by the male... progressively, the man begins to distrust his own judgement and taste." p101-102
-the above behaviour can lead to boredom and an attitude that "I'm afraid to do what I really want to do, or express how I really feel, so I'll avoid feeling guilty by staying at home. But you aren't going to get any satisfaction from my presence either."
-tips for being a father: speak to your child during pregnancy so that it starts to hear and recognise your voice. hold them often when they are small, they will feel your voice resonate in your chest. Hold them against your bare chest, so they start to recognise your smell and its association with manliness - sweaty, natural, clean. make sure you are doing this at the hospital. don't be separated from your wife and child, dont let the nurses take the child away, be there throughout the night. Take 1-3 months off work so that you can unhurriedly adjust to being with the child.
-play wrestling is a good developmental game for young children, which should be done with their father. helps them know how to restrain their strength
-at the age when sons break away from their mothers (~14), the child may start getting cranky or abusive. It is the father's role to step in and say "You should be disappointed with yourself, to be using those words against your mother. You can argue, but do not ever disrespect or threaten her. Otherwise, you will have me to deal with."
-"for aeons of time before this, boys grew up with the sweetness of male teaching from several older men who took pride and placed great store in their maturation." p30
-father hunger is the deep biological need for strong, humorous, hairy, wild, tender, sweaty, caring, intelligent masculine input. For long satisfying hours spent learning to be confident and capable in the world, in the pleasure of doing and making, striving together and laughing at adversity, learning the joy of being a man from men who know these things and are willing to share them." p31
-"most men have been subservient too - to a dehumanizing system that only grew worse with the advent of the industrial era." p32
-"sexism teaches us to think of men as one giant organism that has been dominant for thousands of years, and that can handle or even deserves, a generation or two of abuse. The reality is that men have the same insecurities as women, and the generation of abuse has already had dire consequences for male mental health." p35
-"everyone these days accepts that a parent has the power to crush a child's self esteem. Few realise that a child, in time, holds this same power in reverse." p42
-"eventually though you have to tell your father (and your mother) what you feel and all that you feel" p43
-"many men go to their graves convinced they have been an inadequate human being. They do this because of the lack of respect that has developed with those they love." p43
-"they fall into a fearful hopelessness, having fully accepted the generic diminished idea of father. I am the son of defective male material, and I'll probably be the same as he is." p44
-when talking to your father: keep an open mind, ask for the true story about his life and how it was for him during your childhood, ask him about his work, his life, the decisions he made, DO NOT JUDGE! Ask him how his childhood was, what was it like to raise a family?
-"they attack the respect for masculine integrity that every father, underneath, wants to pass on to his grandchildren and great grandchildren." p54
-"the deep connection that is the real goal of lovemaking - looking soft-eyed into one another's faces, hearts open, bodies relaxed and abandoned, gradually letting go of all defences in trust of each other and of the natural power that possesses you." p59
-"I never made love before, I just screwed... Some kind of incredible warmth, my whole body was filled with it and I didn't want to leave her or roll away from her. I wanted to get closer to her, very close. I could feel the warmth of her body against mine, soft and gentle and for the first time in my life I stayed in a woman's arms and fell asleep." p60
-"we start life as tender babies and spend our whole life just regaining that absolute openness and trust." p60
-"we think of romance as standing on an ocean beach watching the moon rise, of dining by candlelight, making love on a rug by a fireside or impulsively falling to the ground together in long grass, laughing and pulling off each other's clothes to explore the warm skin beneath. Sex is about going back to nature, giving way to wildness - something you should never be too old for. Romance means bringing a wild heart to an erotic body, 'with the naked earth beneath us and the universe above'." p61
-focus less on the physical and more on the sensory, emotional experience. Ask the girl how she would like to feel.
-"when women's bodies are used to sell commodities, then everyone is misused." p64
-"a creature of low self esteem, the creep feels he cannot develop sustained intimate friendships with others. Despairing of the inter subjective happiness, he takes the other, the woman as an object to exploit as best he can. This is a cynical attempt to validate himself through domination... The creep is a man who fails to live up to the romantic ideal and who feels crushed, bitter and resigned to this failure. And since most men suffer defeat in the romantic meritocracy at one time or another, the cripple can find his identity partially located in the world of men... The creep can find a bond with any men who indulge in misogyny." p67
-"boys who excessively succumb to peer group pressure invariably have weak or absent fathers." p70
-"women don't turn you on. You turn yourself on, by the way you focus on women." p76
-fighting/disagreement is good for a relationship, and needs rules: not physical, no walking away, no put down language, on topic don't bring other material, listening to other's p.o.v, take time out if required
-"I will not allow anyone to talk to me in the way you have." p86
-its good to have your own area. Don't be in a house w only her furnishings and decor. Have a room for me!
-"the very thing that makes him a good husband - his devotion to being a stable provider - wears out his spirit and makes him boring. Finding little reward in their boring lives or their sexlife, she starts to cool down. She exerts her perfect right to not make love. The man sulks, suffers, grouches and schemes to no avail." p96
-"the man in this position usually acts in a weak and helpless way. Thus just makes him even less appealing to his wife, however much she may sympathize." p97
-"some friends are on the side I'd your marriage and happiness, however a whole other group, both married and single, are losers with women and are glad to see you having problems too. They don't want you to stay married. Misogynous men are found everywhere." p98
-"learn to be persistent and courtly. Be protective. Don't crowd her. Work to win her over. If sometimes you don't succeed don't take it personally." p99
-"many men have their wide and mother mixed up." p99
-"sport is one of the primary sources for shaping a defective masculine image - arrogant, elitist, violent, unfeeling, individualistic, competitive" p144
-"retirement, for men, is a bad idea. When you retire, you die - although your body might go on for a few more years." p163
-"Zeus energy. This is the ideal of leaders with no ambition other than the wellbeing of their community. Idealists don't see leadership as attractive or even a sound idea. And so the leadership roles are taken by power freaks and egotistically-driven men - the men with the worst possible reason for being in charge." p163
-"In Australia, our leaders and managers make the fatal mistake of thinking that leading is all about economics...people are led by the heart. True leadership means getting involved with people - it's an interpersonal job, a fathering job." p164
-"a leader, a man has to draw on basic fatherly qualities: nurturing, challenging, praising, disciplining, teasing, ensuring individual development of staff." p165
-"(men have) become removed from Nature, which kept them connected to feelings." p168
-"All this hard work and distress, and this debt - for what? So you can watch some cheap video, and eat junk food, and look at your neighbourhood falling apart, and the shopping centre full of plastic signs and noise and carelessness?" michael leunig p169
-"I like sex, I like eating, I like going to bed at night - those fundamental things. These are terribly central and important. I like gardening, I like digging a hole. I like constructing things. I like to paint...I think people are deprived somewhat by modern life; the chance to be of some clear value to the society or to a person, to save someone's life, or to pick someone off the road or to help them." p170
-"Little boys start out warm and affectionate. In the younger grades of school, they have their arms about each other. They are still tender and kind to younger children, unfussed about being with girls and able to cry over a dead pet or a sad story." p176
-"Our non-acceptance of gays actually exacts a severe price on every straight young man. it leads to the self-censoring of any warmth, creativity, affection or emotionality amongst the whole male gender...when we oppress gay people, we oppress ourselves as well. No-one feels free to be himself or herself." p177-178
-"If I am sitting down relaxed, and another man comes and sits down next to me, I first run a threat that he is no physical threat. The i get to assessing whether he is stronger, has better clothes, or is more athletic. If he is with a woman, I look for signs that she doesnt really like him. If the carpark is within view, I check out his car for a comparison to my own. The inner competition goes on and on." p178-9
-"I am teaching myself to see other men as brothers - with good things to give and to receive." p179
-"It's nothing complicated just "How is your life going?"...the opportunity for a very natural and necessary part of men's soul development is missing from our lives. Imagine how tense women would be if they couldn't talk to other women about these things." p184
-"we simply must provide a means for men to express their grief." p185
-"failing to feel one single emotion leads to a shutdown in the full spectrum of feelings." p185
-"the other reason for male friends is to have fun. The kind of fun that is noisy, energetic, affectionate, ribald, accepting, careful under the playfulness but free from respectability and restraint." p186
-"Be affectionate. Give straight compliments from time to time." p188
-"Listen to your friend's problems without trying to minimise them or give advice." p188
-"the closer man gets to inner and outer wildness, the better things will go." p196
-an initiatory journey has 3 steps: 1. separation from family 2. frightening/dangerous jounrye helped along by strangers, resulting in vulnerability and the breaking of fears 3. return home changed
-"Why is it that the wisest, most solid and most trustworthy men we all know are also the ones who love fishing or gardening, bushwalking, the sea, the weather...in the wind, under the stars and in the crash of waves - is where the find invigorating communion with the Wild Man." p218
-"If you are a man, civilisation will kill you." p219
-"Man's cathedrals only mimic the arches and dappled sunlight of the forest. Our music only echoes the sound of wind and birds. Drugs simulate the rush and exhilaration of being alive in such places. Alcohol copies the relaxation and brotherhood of being exhausted in the business of just staying alive in the bush w friends" p220